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seeking info on the car that hit people on thursday
by geoff slagheap
Monday, Mar. 24, 2003 at 10:54 PM
g@okcancel.org
looking for info (license plate # especially) on the person who hit people in the march thursday and who claims his vehicle was damaged. looking to possibly pursue legal action.
hello folks, this is geoff - i was in the march thursday night and i'm the cyclist who was hit and nearly run over by that gold car driven by some suit on his cellphone. this guy is one of the foci of the campaign to discredit the demonstrations, as he claims his car was vandalized. that part i did not witness, but from my understanding his license plate was half torn off. however, i did witness him hit a bunch of other marchers who were on foot (this is what prompted me to put my bike/body in front of his car) and i'd like to get in touch with these people as well as anyone else who witnessed the event or has any info on the car/driver.
my main purpose for this is to shed some light on the reasons for any vandalism that occurred to this hunk of metal, and discuss pursuing some kind of action against this jerk (maybe a cooperative lawsuit or police report?) . . . i hate the legal system, so i'm pretty hesitant about doing that, but we need to do something because this is insane (but not especially surprising) that people value this piece of property more than the humans who this dude rammed in his frustration about not being able to make it to the next red light because of the march.
hugs/revolution,
!geoff! ----> g@okcancel.org
ps all you haters out there, do you realize that a war is going on in which thousands of *living human beings* have died already, in which possibly millions will die, including many of your beloved americans, maybe friends, family and others close to you . . . yet as the bombs fall you accuse the protesters of violence cuz a few people broke a few metal boxes??? seriously, yer sense of perspective is whack.
His Licence Plate Number
by Mark
Monday, Mar. 24, 2003 at 11:41 PM
I recorded his licence plate number as DGB 1143. I support you in your campaign for justice and I am willing to testify that this is the car involved if you choose to pursue legal action. I was told in jail that this car had a DoD sticker on the back signaling that its owner worked for them. Can anyone verify this?
Jaywalking
by D'arby Salt
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 6:49 AM
darbysalt@hotmail.com
I am against the war, and I think that its a shame if people got hurt at your march, but it seems silly to complaining that a car hit you while you were walking in the middle of the road. You were in the road where you had no right to be so you assumed the risk of getting hit by the cars, which had a right to be there.
Personally, I'm surprised that there weren't more injuries when you took that turn across the Veterans Bridge. You're lucky that more people didn't get hurt.
living breathing human beings....agreed
by Dave Z
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 7:18 AM
"all you haters out there, do you realize that a war is going on in which thousands of *living human beings* have died already,"
DO you realize how many folks Sadaam killed and how many died on 911? THEY were "living and breathing human beings" too.... Are you willing to risk that that will continue? How about with your mom/dad/brother/son?
License Plate Number
by Dave Z
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 7:19 AM
Careful, SParky....by publicly distributing his license plate number in this fashion, you COULd be considered an accessory if anything should now happen to him or his vehicle.
Talk about spreading hate.
DZ
Dave
by Sam
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 7:25 AM
http://www.peacefultomorrows.org/
Sam
by Dave Z
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 7:48 AM
And the point is??
There are also plenty of 911 families who AGREE with the war, so where are we now? Back at squre one.
I find it ironic that the site leads of with a MLK quote....the man died from violence.....he relied on folks being peaceful and it cost him his life,...a great man brought down by his own belief that it could be peace 100%.
There IS a price for peace.
DZ
sure
by DZ
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 8:14 AM
I really don't think that Mr. Kings love of peace cost him his life. And I don't think it was his belief that there could be 100% peace that cost him his life.
It was someone else's violence that did. If Mr. Ray believed in peace Mr. King would be alive. There is nothing wrong with Mr. Kings views, to say that it was his peaceful philosophy that got him killed is assanine.
sure
by jwg
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 8:14 AM
I really don't think that Mr. Kings love of peace cost him his life. And I don't think it was his belief that there could be 100% peace that cost him his life.
It was someone else's violence that did. If Mr. Ray believed in peace Mr. King would be alive. There is nothing wrong with Mr. Kings views, to say that it was his peaceful philosophy that got him killed is assanine.
sure
by jwg
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 8:14 AM
I really don't think that Mr. Kings love of peace cost him his life. And I don't think it was his belief that there could be 100% peace that cost him his life.
It was someone else's violence that did. If Mr. Ray believed in peace Mr. King would be alive. There is nothing wrong with Mr. Kings views, to say that it was his peaceful philosophy that got him killed is assanine.
Dave Z.
by rebecca
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 8:29 AM
"DO you realize how many folks Sadaam killed and how many died on 911? THEY were "living and breathing human beings" too.... Are you willing to risk that that will continue? How about with your mom/dad/brother/son?'
Dave - We had dinner with 2 Iraqis Wednesday evening, the night before the bombing started. They told us how absolutely petrified their families were of the coming attacks - some older people had had heart attacks they were so totally out of their minds with fear. These people hate and fear Saddam but they also don't (didn't) want the Americans/Brits in there controlling things. They would rather have let time take its course and got rid of him their way, the Arab way. You only have to look at a history of the region and French/British interference there since the crusades to understand why our "help" isn't wanted now. Don't getting messing about in other people's cultures...
There are no credible links between Saddam/9/11 - you have to know that by now.
And there's no better way of "continuing" the terrorism than waging war on the Middle East. Now we've got the whole M.E. enraged, we really have reason to fear for our "mom/dad/brothers/son."
I'm sure MLK would be delighted (not!) with your "peace has a price" - what an example of twisted logic. I'd say that price started with the people who get arrested/beaten up last Thursday and those who will continue to get hurt (or worse) in trying to stop any more "dominos" falling in the Bush adminstration's war plan.
Dave
by Sam
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 8:45 AM
That's the point. You can't speak for all of the families who lost loved ones on 9/11 anymore than I can.
9/11 was a tragedy, and it should be treated as such. Sickeningly, it's being used to promote an agenda that Bush had in mind (at least in part) before was even elected.
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Not even Bush claims it did. Its ties to al-Qaeda are dubious at best. (Bush's claims to the contrary have all been thoroughly debunked. If you'd like, I can go into more detail.) British and Israeli intelligence have always rejected the link.
However, according to the CIA, an attack on Iraq is going to make terrorist attacks more likely (indeed, there have already been several small-scale ones). It will only serve to unite the Arab world against us, and to supercharge terrorist recruiting.
How often we hear war supporters say, "Remember 9/11!" Yet they're the ones who've apparently forgotten. Bush's suicidal policies are making another 9/11 more likely.
Besides, where's Osama bin Laden, who actually *did* have something to do with 9/11? Where's the financial support for the families of the victims of 9/11? Why have their attempts to sue those responsible, like the Saudi government, been stopped? Why does the administration keep blocking investigations into the 9/11?
And who ever said we're all pacifists? This movement encompasses a great number of ideological tendencies. I'm certainly no pacifist. I'm still opposed to this war, however.
King was killed because he spoke out against the Vietnam War. He was villified, called a Communist. And gullible people -- people like *you* -- ate it up.
I don't know how old you are, Dave. But I hope you're still alive 30 or 40 years down the road, so you can look back and realize that in 2003, you were on the wrong side of history.
Maybe, but...
by Sam
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 9:10 AM
<<You were in the road where you had no right to be so you assumed the risk of getting hit by the cars, which had a right to be there.>>
Accidentally, maybe. But I wouldn't expect people to deliberately try to run over protestors, which is what happened.
MLK contd
by Dave Z
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 9:15 AM
"It was someone else's violence that did. If Mr. Ray believed in peace Mr. King would be alive. There is nothing wrong with Mr. Kings views, to say that it was his peaceful philosophy that got him killed is assanine."
Correct...SOME LESE'S violence killed him.
But his continued assumption that everyone felt the way he did is what opened him up to it. He walked around feeling impervious to the danger that haunted him every day becasue he felt that in the end peace would win...admirable, but naive.
World acceptance/MLK
by Dave Z
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 9:26 AM
"And there's no better way of "continuing" the terrorism than waging war on the Middle East. Now we've got the whole M.E. enraged, we really have reason to fear for our "mom/dad/brothers/son."
Surely you dont believe that?? We were the intense target of hatred LONG BEFORE 911 and this war....well before the Gulf War as well...AMericans have LONG been a target by some in that culture.....I would agree that this war won't make us any morepopular......But it isnt always a popularity contest either.
Like I said before.....like it or don;t, our country would NOT be sitting as comfortably as we are relatively speaking if we didnt stand up for certain things once in a while....there are PLENTY of people out there willing to use violence to steal it away from us. We can either let them take it or fight back...asking them politely to NOT do so doesnt work.
"I'm sure MLK would be delighted (not!) with your "peace has a price" - what an example of twisted logic."
Hmm...well, I would submit that his peaceful tactics really didnt yield a whole heck of a lot in the end, if you want to look at the very arguments that the peace advocates talk about...we are not much better off than when MLK was alive...so if Peace is that overpowering to force, why is force still such a factor in the world???
Let me guess...the US is to blame for that too?
" I'd say that price started with the people who get arrested/beaten up last Thursday and those who will continue to get hurt (or worse) in trying to stop any more "dominos" falling in the Bush adminstration's war plan."
Now that is just absurd. The people arrested and theoretically beaten put themselves in that position. Argue all you like, but I feel that you can argue a point and NOT get arrested or beaten...we are doing it here, yes??
If I go into a pitbull's yard with a steak around my neck and taunting him to do something, most likely I will get my wish.
I have SEEN protestors yelling "F@ck you!" to cops wand such, goading them to do something....is that peaceful protest?? Not.
NOT TO SAY that all the protesters were looking for any trouble....I would say that 90% of them WERE NOT, and I support their "right" to march and have free speech.....(but dont infringe on MY right NOT to be affected by YOUR right).... But the 10% that WERE there to cause trouble and get rowdy are the ones to blame for inciting a problme...not the police.
Feels like we are just going in circles here.....
MLK and X
by Hard Truth
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 9:40 AM
Most scholars of the civil rights movement will tell you that without the alternative (Malcolm X), that it was unlikely the government would change its policy. it basically came down to whether or not America wanted a second civil war. the summer of 1968 brought us very close. should this war continue for long with the expected Military estimate of 3,000-17,000 US casualties i think we will be facing a time unseen since 1968.
I am anti-war but i am NOT a pacifist, and netiher was Malcolm.
Fight The Power
Hack The Planet
These Colors Dont Run the World
Pgh Police tactics
by jwg
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 9:57 AM
I dunno, and I'd rather be naive than a tool... but shouldn't Pgh Police tactics involve arresting somebody for all these murders we have in our town? I mean you hear about shootings every day, but never about arrests... hmmm?
I'd much rather the police protect the citizens than 'intimadate' and harrass. I don't see them reating too much when shit goes sour in the hill district. But keep a couple suburbanite in the city for a few hours longer and all hell breaks loose.
I say, if we want the next march not to end in arrests, we go from the federal building to the Hill district, the po-po will _never_follow you there.
911, MLK et al
by Dave z
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 10:01 AM
"That's the point. You can't speak for all of the families who lost loved ones on 9/11 anymore than I can. "
Ok, so at least we agree there...<grin>
"9/11 was a tragedy, and it should be treated as such. Sickeningly, it's being used to promote an agenda that Bush had in mind (at least in part) before was even elected. "
I guess it is all in how you look at it......I dont see it that way...I see the US as a vulnerable country when something like 911 can happen that easily. Our president is simply taking steps to TRY to prevent this sort of thing in the future.....Ok, maybe you dont agree with his tactic.....I was not sure I did at first either.
But the answer is NOT to simply sitback and cowe in fear either. You folks keep harping about "rights" being taken away......What about the rights that we lost when we couldnt travel by air without fear? What about having to go thru extra security measures to look for shoe bombs? What about the right to be able to wake up in the morning and be secure in that yiou won't likely die today due to some whacknut aiming aplane or truck bomb at your building?? That stuff was all LOST on 911.......Maybe they dont mean as much to you, but that securirty is forever lost...we lost a GREAT DEAL on 911.
"Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Not even Bush claims it did. Its ties to al-Qaeda are dubious at best. (Bush's claims to the contrary have all been thoroughly debunked. If you'd like, I can go into more detail.) British and Israeli intelligence have always rejected the link. "
I dont disgree there..simply using 911 as an example of what can happen when you let down your guard and assume that everyone plays by the same "peaceful" rules as you.....As much hatred and terrorism, though, that boiled in Iraq prewar, and given the indications that Sadaam was definately hiding a LOTfrom the UN (charged with "keeping the peace"), what was the option?? Wait another 10 yearsd and hope that Sadaam didnt push the button?
"However, according to the CIA, an attack on Iraq is going to make terrorist attacks more likely (indeed, there have already been several small-scale ones). It will only serve to unite the Arab world against us, and to supercharge terrorist recruiting. "
Again, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out....The hatred toward the US from that region has been there for years and of course war doesnt make it any better. But it also sends the message that we arent going to sit and wait for them to find US, either.
Like the kid in highschool just wanting to be left alone, NOT FIGHTING simply encourages rogue school kids to pick fights. SOmetimes you hafta send a message.
"How often we hear war supporters say, "Remember 9/11!" Yet they're the ones who've apparently forgotten. Bush's suicidal policies are making another 9/11 more likely. "
Not to mention the fact that these same terrorists feed off of the anti-war protesters who give them the feeling like they could be gaining ground. Why not just send a written invite to take over your town?? You know how we look at the "condition" of the Iraqui people to gauge how we are doing? THEY DO THE SAME THING....seeing AMericans protesting the president simply adds fuel to the fire.
So please, maybe the war didnt help, but sending the message that some Americans side with the Irqui resistance isnt helpng either.
"Besides, where's Osama bin Laden, who actually *did* have something to do with 9/11?"
Good question.....
"Where's the financial support for the families of the victims of 9/11?"
Ask Bin Laden if he is going to pay restitution. We are too busy spending money on police forces to combat peace protestors.
" Why have their attempts to sue those responsible, like the Saudi government, been stopped? Why does the administration keep blocking investigations into the 9/11? "
Most likely because we can only afford to fight one war right now, currently with Iraq. I feel like Saudi Arabia had quite a buit to do with 911....but lets face it, we still need to suck up and play politics with the world. Right now, we have fish to fry in getting Sadaam out of power.
I still cant understand why folks have such a problem with getting Sadaam out of power......EVERYONE SEEMS to agree that he is heinous, killing his own people. EVERY SEEMS to agree that he has committed crimes against humanity. yet we step in to stop ity and now WE are the bad guys??? Talk about a warped sense of reality.
"And who ever said we're all pacifists? This movement encompasses a great number of ideological tendencies. I'm certainly no pacifist. I'm still opposed to this war, however. "
Being opposed to the war is fine. Voice that. But for many here it seems to be less than that...I see people who just seem to want to bitch about the "conditions" we have here in the US....in the same breath saying how we should get ouy of Iraq (and therefore let him continue torturing those Iraquis who disgaree) but demanding that Pittsburgh police be brought up on brutality charges because they got arrested and their cuffs were too tight. Gimme a break.
"King was killed because he spoke out against the Vietnam War. He was villified, called a Communist. And gullible people -- people like *you* -- ate it up. "
So again, its all a big huge plan to kill the peace loving folks.....Please.
Like I said, you are free to voice your opinion on ANYTHING in this country. But be adult enough to understand that simply by voicing that opinion you DO put yourself at a risk from those who disagree with YOU and dont play by the same rules...this is why law enforcement has such a tough job.....people interpret things like laws and rules differently as to how they think it SHOULD be......
Gullible?? I say that gullible is belieiving a line that says that simply asking terrorists and dictators to "play nice" and "embrace peace"
"I don't know how old you are, Dave. But I hope you're still alive 30 or 40 years down the road, so you can look back and realize that in 2003, you were on the wrong side of history. "
I have the same wish for you. Only time will tell which of us will be "right" or if (as I believe) there IS no 100% right side to everything.....
DZ
i was there
by John LaDue
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 2:05 PM
laduejohn@hotmail.com
Geoff, I was right next to you when you got hit by the car. I was the one to your right who stepped in front of the car until you could get yourself and your bike out of the way. I am willing to testify if it comes to that. There is no way that a 10 to 15 minute longer commute justifies hitting another human being with a ton of steel. Let me know if I can be of assistance.
Description
by Josh Ferris
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 3:46 PM
jlf12@pitt.edu 412.302.9417
The car that hit somebody and then people retaliated against i have described in my cell phone as
Lisence number: DGB 1143
State:PA
Make: infinit i32
Hope it Helps
Dave Z is a Troll. Ignore him?
by Colin
Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 3:49 PM
Really. He's a Troll. All Dave Z is doing is stating general rhetoric without any full logical reasoning of the situation, much less any real grasp of the world.
Dave Z will continue stating sound bites, so don't bother about writing anything to validate his Trolling. You're not going to change his mind, because he's came here to cause a stir.
If you want to respond to Dave Z, perhaps the following will be more productive.
"Dave Z, I do not respond to rhetoric."
Status of Friday's Trial
by Eric
Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 9:19 AM
What is the status of the trial on Friday? Has it been postponed? Where will it be? Can the general public attend?
trial update
by emma
Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 8:51 PM
updated info on the trial (including the new date) is here: http://indypgh.org/news/2003/03/3565.php
Dave Z
by GWBoosh
Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 4:57 AM
Dave Z is unfortunately addicted to his television.
He believes himself to be well informed by what is actually disinformation. Anything that could possibly counter his sense of reality goes in one ear and out the other.
There is not much that can be done for this kind of person. He could sign up for the army of one....I do hear they need more cannon fodder.
'pitty the Foo.'
Dave Z
by Evan N
Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 10:10 AM
While i respectably disagree with Dave Z, he is perhaps the most polite, well spoken, and just plain kind heckler on here, if you could even call him that. He doesn't come on and tweak out about potsmoking hippie communists like some do, instead he attempts to reason and debate with us. He spends some time writing his responses, and however wrong we believe he might be, i thank him for creating thought provoking dialogue on here
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