community-based, non-corporate, participatory media
The city awakens to the reality of the dead Iraqi children
by TakeWrning
Monday, Apr. 28, 2003 at 10:34 AM
On the morning of April 28th, baby dolls painted to look like bombing victims will be displayed in the streets throughout the metropolitan area.
On the morning of April 28th, baby dolls painted to look like bombing victims will be displayed in the streets throughout the metropolitan area. Located next to or below these baby dolls will be fact sheets that give reasons to end the occupation of Middle-Eastern countries and resist the Bush administration�s imperialistic foreign policy.
Hopefully people got an eyeful this Monday morning.... but I know by 10:30, the one on Atwood Street was taken down.
www.takewrning.iwarp.com/Globalize/Dolls/dolls2.html
dolls
by TakeWrning
Monday, Apr. 28, 2003 at 10:34 AM
www.takewrning.iwarp.com/Globalize/Dolls/dolls2.html
dolls
by TakeWrning
Monday, Apr. 28, 2003 at 10:34 AM
www.takewrning.iwarp.com/Globalize/Dolls/dolls2.html
dolls
by TakeWrning
Monday, Apr. 28, 2003 at 10:34 AM
www.takewrning.iwarp.com/Globalize/Dolls/dolls2.html
Congrats
by I.
Monday, Apr. 28, 2003 at 11:50 AM
Congrats to the people that came up with this idea. Creative resistance is awsome.
good job pog
by yes
Monday, Apr. 28, 2003 at 12:31 PM
excellent idea, creative resistance is a good idea.
the pog of war
by albert
Monday, Apr. 28, 2003 at 2:00 PM
great work, folks! you keep all of us on our toes with your creative and inspirational activism
bravo!
by david
Monday, Apr. 28, 2003 at 4:39 PM
we need more stuff like that. keep it up.
Amazing.
by Matt Walker
Monday, Apr. 28, 2003 at 6:04 PM
Walkster1@aol.com
Amazing job. That is by far the best thing I have seen other than the marches.
Good Job, POG!
LOVE IT!
by Jani
Monday, Apr. 28, 2003 at 9:58 PM
Great idea! I love it!
Is this all that's left of direct action?
by apathetic/anti-war/anarchist/AKA dickmissile
Monday, Apr. 28, 2003 at 10:22 PM
"Amazing job. That is by far the best thing I have seen other than the marches. "
I think this is by far the best thing I have seen, and, while i liked a lot and would like to see more stuff like this happening, i thought it was kinda lame in the broader scheme of direct action. Why weren't there more people participate in it?
I am biased as this weekend was the first march I've been to in Pittsburgh, but I thought that it was pathetic. As far as my understanding of what the ultimate goal of the anti-war movement is (stop war) This march in no way brought it any closer. If the goal of the anti-war movement is to have an excuse to boost your ego and feel good about the fact that while you may drive an SUV you do wear birkenstocks and voted for Gore, (but you really wantd to vote for Nader) then it was a success.It was "sweet" in that no one who attended the event had to be inconvenienced to do it, no one had to display any real passion, and this is sweet because I think there were few there who could have.
These are some of the reasons I feel this way. There was no real variety of tactics. Did what happened to the Pitt 122 scare the rest of you that much? I thought the carnival of greed was a good idea, but lacked the organization to make it happen well.
For something that took months of organizing, I found the websites to be very inadequate, lacking info on the routes of the feeder marches, legal contact info, and street medics for the march. I was, however, impressed with the large ACLU bloc at the march. if you took away the socialist agenda-pushers, cops, and the ACLU, there wouldn't be anyone left.
The speakers definitely were bland, most seemed to be pushing their own agenda. Is this a failure on the organizers part for not inviting better speakers or the community's part for not producing them? why was there not better media coverage? I saw many cameras there, butthose that run the papers will only print what they want to or what demands their attention. I'd say that that's an argument for more direct action.
As far as chants go, I couldn't keep myself from screaming "this is what hipocrisy looks like!" , "I wish I knew what democracy looked like!" and, "this is what beaureacracy looks like!" just to keep from having to hear that pathetic slogan one more time.
No, I don't think the march or rally was a success, but I do think that I am as much to blame as anyone else who did or didn't attend. If I wanted more of the things that I believe should be happening within the anti-war movement to happen, I should have made them happen.
P.S. Did anyone at least meet new people/network with other groups? The only thing that I felt good about my entire trip to Pitt was meeting the Food Not Bombs kids and dumpster scoring some veggies.
dickmissile
by Someone
Monday, Apr. 28, 2003 at 11:46 PM
I agree with most of what you said, and I appreciate a view from an outsider. I only went to the rally and march on Saturday, but I thought it was a complete failure, especially compared to the January convergence. POG should be congratulated for making some of the few positive contributions to the weekend. I didn't have a whole lot of faith in the AWC in the first place. This weekend has reaffirmed my belief in that group's general uselessness.
How do we change this?
by missile
Tuesday, Apr. 29, 2003 at 2:25 AM
To "Someone"
and everyone
what did you disagree with? I agree that POG should be congratulated on a good effort. What can we do to turn this into a learning experience? I don't live that far from Pittsburgh and am interested in becoming more involved in activism there as well as trying to make some ties with groups in my hometown to groups up there. If the AWC isn't effective, what can we do that is? It seems like a city of that size could have a much stronger event than what just happened, but that maybe a lot of people really did let the cops win with their 122 scare tactics. It seems to me that with POG being the most effective voice they just need more support in order to do things that are really great on a large scale. I wish I knew about them before I went up there, I got all my info from here and the TMC website and didn't realize how involved they were until afterwards. An oversight on my part, but I wonder how accessible they are to those who want to make real activism happen.
I feel like one of the reasons the turn-out was so poor was that many people consider the war to be over, but there is still US war/imperialism happening everywherein this world, including in our own cities (the speaker from people against police violence was one of the few I enjoyed). and hey, 700 might not be that many, but if we had been doing other stuff than letting 6 cops cow them into a lame permitted march with lame slogans they could have made a real impact.
what?
by Evan N
Tuesday, Apr. 29, 2003 at 7:32 AM
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. The AWC does a shit load of stuff whether you recognize it or not. You really can't blame the decrease in numbers at the protests on the AWC as it is happening all over the country. Also, the AWC had to deal with permit apps., organizing a sound system, tracing out the march routes, contacting EVERY media person that was in attendance, and a bunch of other shitty gruntwork jobs that no one else had the patience/time/desire to do. The AWC does the jobs that need to be done for a march to take place. If you don't like how the AWC operates why dont you show up at their meeting and change something. We would love to hear your input.
missile
by Someone
Tuesday, Apr. 29, 2003 at 8:39 AM
I agree that lots of people perceive the war to be over. That's why we got so many confused looks during the march. That's why we need to stop demanding an end to the war and start demanding an end to the occupation. And we need to start drawing connections to the broader ideology of the "war on terrorism", exposing it as nothing more than a justification for imperialism.
That means we need new slogans, new chants, and new means of disseminating information. Where were the flyers to hand out to passers-by?
The Pittsburgh 122 fiasco had a lot to do with it. It's not that people were scared away, but that many people can't afford to get arrested for the next three months (as per the terms set by the court).
On the other hand, you have to understand that if we want to reach out to working people, we have to realize that many of them have jobs and families to worry about, and don't want to risk getting arrested. And working people are the ones who will make the revolution -- *not* dumpster-diving lifestylists.
Where has the diversity been at these events? With PAPV's involvement, there should've been a greater turnout from the African American community. But the people who come to these events remain overwhelmingly white and middle class. That's a problem that needs to be addressed, I think.
I am for a setting up of "zones" like those that were set up in Quebec, for people who are comfortable with various levels of action.
As far as the AWC goes: their procuring of permits and such is appreciated. But let's face it: this is the first event (that I know of) of which they were the main organizers. They managed to put together a predictable ANSWER-style march and rally. The slogans ranged from the off-message to the wildly inappropriate and cheesy ("More Chaka Khan, no shock and awe"? Gimme a break... people are dying!). In the past, the AWC's activities have consisted basically of taking credit for the hard work of the Thomas Merton Center and POG.
P.S. The SWP members trying to sell their newspaper got really, really annoying. I can tolerate being asked once or twice, but by the fifth time or so, you'd think they'd get the idea that I'm not interested in forking over cash for their rag.
my name
by Chaka Khan
Tuesday, Apr. 29, 2003 at 6:26 PM
DID I HEAR THAT SOMEONE USED MY NAME IN THIS ACTIVIST MARCH?
I COULD SUE YOU FOR THAT, BUT I WON'T BECAUSE I DISAGREE WITH THE GOVERNMENTS WAY OF TERRORIZING THE WORLD AND THEN FORMING COLONIES IN THE COUNTRIES THEY TERRORIZE,(I MEAN LIBERATE--HA!)
BUT DON'T USE MY NAME BECAUSE THAT IS UTTERLY RIDICULOUS! THAT MAKES THE PEACE MOVEMENT LOOK SILLY.
WHO GIVES A RAT'S ASS ABOUT CHAKA KHANNING, ONLY ME!
taking credit?
by Evan N
Tuesday, Apr. 29, 2003 at 9:13 PM
AWC taking credit for TMC stuff? the AWC is the branch of the thomas merton center that deals with anti-war stuff. they ARE the TMC
Zones
by dickmissile
Tuesday, Apr. 29, 2003 at 9:47 PM
Zones sounds like a good idea. But would that make it easier for cops to target those interested in direct action, arresting them "pre-emptively?"
I agree that the revolution's going to come from the workers, not the dirty white kids, but that doesn't mean that they aren't going to be a part of it, or that I don't appreciate them trying to live their ideals today.
So if the workers are going to be the revolution, where's the outreach? I don't know much about trade unions in Pittsburgh, but in other parts of the country they have been very involved in the anti-war movement, realizing that imperialism is bad for workers EVERYWHERE.
I can't afford to get arrested either, I work, have bills, LOVE WHAT FREEDOM I HAVE, and think that any action that involves intentionally getting arrested places a faith in the american legal system that I lost years ago. I am, however, willing to participate in actions that are unpermitted/ illegal mostly because I believe they can be much more effective than what happened on Saturday and am willing to take that risk.
Yes, AWC did have a large amount of stuff to take care of, and did a humongous job in getting what they did done, but that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.
Where Can I Buy Those Victory Dolls?
by Prodigal Yunzer
Tuesday, Apr. 29, 2003 at 10:21 PM
They don't have them at Wal Mart, Toyz N At, or anywhere else I checked.
AWC
by Evan N
Wednesday, Apr. 30, 2003 at 7:25 AM
I agree that there is room for improvement in the AWC, but that can only come from people attending the meetings that are open for participation to anyone that decides to show up and help us make descisions
In Addition...
by wheatpaster
Wednesday, Apr. 30, 2003 at 1:03 PM
Evan,
I also agree that there is room for improvement in the AWC, and I agree that those with a beef about the A26 action should bring those concerns to the AWC meeting on May 10th. However, to say the "only way" for the problem to be alleviated is for more people to attend AWC meetings is not entirely accurate --but does have merit.
I would also hope people continue to organize themselves independantly of the AWC and bring the results of those discussions and decisions to the public (or AWC meetings if you have the time). By having each group or collective develop actions independantly, I believe the peace movement will be more diverse and creative overall.
Evan.
by ---
Wednesday, Apr. 30, 2003 at 4:23 PM
"taking credit?
by Evan N � Tuesday April 29, 2003 at 09:13 PM
AWC taking credit for TMC stuff? the AWC is the branch of the thomas merton center that deals with anti-war stuff. they ARE the TMC"
No. they are a project of the TMC. Your comments show a misunderstanding of the way the TMC operates. The AWC has been misleading in the past in claiming credit for work done by the STAFF of the TMC which is not a part of the AWC (and the work of POG)
wow Evan
by jimmy john
Wednesday, Apr. 30, 2003 at 4:31 PM
boo hoo hoo Evan. Cry me a river. The fact a group organizes an event doesn't take away peoples right to criticize what they did (or didn't do). It's especially funny coming from you since you've gone out of your way in the past to criticize "diversity of tactics" and the marches not done by the AWC. All this work the AWC had to do for the event is what any organizing group has to do to put on a event. I understand the AWC hasn't had to do this in the past, but let's get real. They actually had to DO SOMETHING for a change and they were fairly ineffectual. It is a step in the right direction that they finally put something together.
The AWC put on an ANSWER type event and now people are depressed. Isn't exactly a suprise.
And please don't use the attend the meetings or don't complain line. The AWC is messed up as a group and it's not anyones job to fix it. Many people I know have gone to meetings and wont go back.
huh?
by Evan N
Wednesday, Apr. 30, 2003 at 9:38 PM
criticizing diversity of tactics? if criticizing diversity of tactics means thinking that throwing newspaper boxes in the street doesnt do shit then i guess i'm guilty. No one is trying to take away your right to criticize the AWC, i also have the right to defend it. I also have the right to criticize certain aspects of direct action which i dont agree with and i'm not forcing anyone to comply. Once again if you dont like it, change it. if you didnt like changing things that are wrong you wouldnt be an activist now would you? and youre right, it isn't anyone's job to "fix" the AWC, but constructive criticism at a meeting instead of bitching on indymedia ameliorates the problem, and if the AWC is so backwards wouldn't that help out the peace movement? and i haven't criticized all marches but AWC ones, i have attended all but 1 POG unpermitted march, and i believe that they went well. what i did criticize was the trashing of shit and hitting peoples cars (or if you want to call it diversity of tactics ) also to the person above, i wasn't saying attending AWC meetings would cure the pittsburgh peace movement of it's problems, but would rather cure some of the problems people have with justs the AWC, not the entire peace movement.
I haven't seen the AWC take credit for any TMC staff member's work, but that doesn't mean it didnt happen. the comment i was responding to struck me as the person thought that the AWC was completely autonomous from the TMC and i was trying to correct them.
good idea, but why didn't you care about the kurdish children in the 80s who were gassed?
by OG Readmore
Thursday, May. 01, 2003 at 4:36 PM
so you're only against iraqi children dying when the US is behind it, even if it hopefully ends up freeing the majority of people in the country? why aren't people protesting innocent children dying in Tibet at the hands of the Chinese government? Are any of you protesting the treatment of women in Afghanistan right now (religious fundamentalist police have started harrassing and beating women again about their choice of clothes).
I've said it before, the US has done shitty things in the world. good that you and everyone else in the world recognizes this, but what about the shitty things other governments are doing to their minority citizens? if you are a true humanitarian you should recognize that and be against all injustice, not just injustice at the hands of the US. The US government chose to free the Iraqi people, not for the Iraqi's benefit, but for the benefit of the Western World. I'm sure the US couldn't care less about liberating anyone, but that doesn't mean that the end result - freeing Iraqi's from 3 decades of rape, torture, oppression - isn't a good thing.
question to all of you: had japan not attacked the US in 1940 thus forcing the US to enter the war against the Axis nations, would you still favor the US attacking Germany to oust Hitler even though it would end up killing innocent Germans? if you say "no" you have a seriously fucked up ideology.
-
by -
Thursday, May. 01, 2003 at 5:14 PM
question to all of you: had japan not attacked the US in 1940 thus forcing the US to enter the war against the Axis nations, would you still favor the US attacking Germany to oust Hitler even though it would end up killing innocent Germans? if you say "no" you have a seriously fucked up ideology.
It's important to note that many people on this site are openly anti-jew. Some even claim the holocaust didn't happen, and that the real victims of WW2 were the peaceful Nazis. No, I'm not kidding, people here have actually said that. Between that and the blatent anti-zionist propaganda it's obvious that being open-minded and liberal is only imporant until you have to deal with those dirty jew bankers controlling the world. Look at the blanket support "palestinians" get from this site while everyone ignores the 100+ years of violence committed by Arabs against Jews.
About time
by pizzaman!
Thursday, May. 01, 2003 at 5:55 PM
Its about time the closed-minded right wing idiots started spewing forth unsubstantiated aspirsions again. Activists were starting to displace anger so vehemently in your absence, we started disagreeing with each other!! Welcome back, jackasses. We missed you!!!
hope that pizzaman post is about me
by OG Readmore
Thursday, May. 01, 2003 at 6:17 PM
because if it is, it would just prove how you don't understand my politics. I'm about as left-wing as you can get w/out being an outright anarchist. I'm just 100% against fascist oppression such as in the case of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Suharto, Hussein, Pinochet.
Yes I know that the U.S. helped install Hussein and Pinochet in the first place. I don't excuse them for their complicity, regardless I'm glad they are no longer in power.
hmm
by Evan N
Thursday, May. 01, 2003 at 7:26 PM
While i thank the poster above talking about the kurdish children for not being rude and for arguing in a civilized manner (unlike some contrarians that come to this site to spew crap), the reason I dont protest china afghanistan and every other single country in the world that does bad stuff is simple: i really dont have the time. I wish i did. I love to concentrate on one country at a time when it comes into the global spotlight, but i also feel that i do my part (hwoever small it might be) concerning countries whos atrocities are somcetimes forgotten by being a member of amnesty intl. and writing letters to foreign leaders every once and a while. It DOES work - amnesty has freed like a zillion prisoners of concious.
i do feel horrible about hussein gassing the kurdish children and he is a monster, but an equally monsterous act is the united states totally erasing history and not even mentioning the fact that we sold him those weapons and sold out the kurds, leading to that brutal gas attack. if the united states would have been like "alright look we fucked up and sold out the kurds, this is how we will assure you it wont happen again..." that would have been better
protesting Afghanistan &c
by Saleh
Thursday, May. 01, 2003 at 7:45 PM
note that the women's right violations in Afghanistan are being committed by the US allies, who the US said would be bringing about the liberation of women from the Taliban. The US's Potemkinization of Afghan women is farcical - e.g. a handful of women (20) get driver's licenses in media-focused Kabul, which is hailed by the US as progress for women's rights, while US aid agencies tell the US government they won't work in Northern Alliance home base areas anymore because of the gang rapes of female aid workers there. Also, US-replacements in southern Afghanistan start saying the religious leaders should tell them to ban women's education and television (the religious leaders hadn't been doing that, but were asked to by the US's replacements). For someone who calls themself "OG readmore", try having a more critical perspective. In the case of women's rights, see who's doing the violations, what the US was saying about women's rights before the Taliban were defeated, and what the US is saying about women's rights more. You'll see that there's more going on than just fundamentalists taking away women's rights, rather the US is trying to dupe the world into thinking it's helping women when in fact it's replacing one force with a worse force for its own interests.
Along those lines, it's for the Afghans to protest and change Afghanistan, for the Kurds to liberate themselves, and for the people ot the US to change that their government does and how their society works. Being offended by US-leftists protesting only US activities shows a misidentification - the ruling classes are different from the masses and have different interests. It's fascism that says that the masses should line up behind the rulers, and expects that the masses will fall for racist traps in protesting violations in other countries (that are then used to invade them). It's because US leftists realize that changing the US is the work of the people of the US, and changing Afghanistan is the work of the people of Afghanistan, that we protest US violations and leave protesting other's violations to themselves.
This doesn't exclude solidarity work - US leftists recognize that the US supports oppressive regimes like Israel or contra movements, and so we protest violations by Israel and contra movements because we know it's our work to end US support for those violators.
OG Reafmore: I assume you're a USA-er, start seeing yourself as part of the US mass with the task of changing the US, not as someone in a bubble tallying which countries violations are protested how often.
.
by .
Thursday, May. 01, 2003 at 8:10 PM
US leftists recognize that the US supports oppressive regimes like Israel or contra movements, and so we protest violations by Israel and contra movements because we know it's our work to end US support for those violators.
This is part of the problem. Everyone is intent on putting pressure on Israel and the US to end these "violations" but no one is putting pressure on the Palestinians to end their violations. In fact just the opposite is happening, Arab countries openly support the Palestinian violations! For the past 3 years the US has consistently been saying "Israel needs to stop and pull out of WestBank/Gaza and the Palestinians need to stop terrorist attacks on Israel" while the Arab world has been saying "Israel needs to pull out" while being curiously silent about Palestinian terror. Yet the US is the biased one. Right...
Re: -
by Saleh
Thursday, May. 01, 2003 at 9:14 PM
but the US isn't funding Palestinian violence, it's funding Israeli violence, therefore US people can only change the Israeli side, like pressure them to end the occupation, etc. It's not about bad stuff coming from both sides of conflict, which is true, it's about what our society is doing - the society we're in is funding Israel and backing it's occupation, invading Iraq and occupying it, invading Afghanistan and setting up oppressive puppets there, etc. We as people in the US don't want the US doing this, that's why we try to get the masses to change this. It's about our role in society, not about all that's wrong with the world. Regime change starts at home.
morons
by jani
Thursday, May. 01, 2003 at 10:04 PM
Who here said that the holocaust was fake????? I never read that anywhere on here. Stupid jackasses... tricks are for kids.
liars
by Jani
Thursday, May. 01, 2003 at 10:05 PM
Stop making up lies and using them to validate your weak points.
people
by jani
Thursday, May. 01, 2003 at 10:07 PM
No one here (that I know of) is anti-semitic or racist, including me.
more info
by .
Thursday, May. 01, 2003 at 10:35 PM
http://pgh.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/6101.php
It's late and I need to get to bed so I don't have time to look more in depth. That's just the most recent one. There have been at least 10 more stories/posts like that one in the past week or so that I've seen. Possibly it's all the same person, but I doubt it (as I've seen several IMC regulars posting similar things.)
article
by jani
Friday, May. 02, 2003 at 12:57 AM
Well, I never saw that article and never knew about it. I clicked on it and its all in german so I have no idea what its really about.
I believe that the Holocaust happened. And then some of the Nazi doctors came here to do some of their work and experiments here. That's what I read anyway. I know MKUltra is real. Don't know about the whole Nazi thing. I don't rule it out though.
That doesn't make me an anti-semite.
note to Jani
by Evan N
Friday, May. 02, 2003 at 5:27 PM
most of the anti-semitic nazi trash posts were removed by the moderators ,i think, due to their disgusting nature. it did happen though, i saw them before they were cleared
`
by `
Friday, May. 02, 2003 at 6:28 PM
Yeah...because nazis and palestinians have never gotten along before. Oh, except during WW2 when large parts of the german SS were made up of muslim soldiers trucked in from the middle east.
See palestinians and arabs have some common ground with the Nazis. They both blindly hate Jews for no reason other than their religion/race. That's why the arabs have been attacking jews for over 100 years (well before the legal creation of Israel) and will continue to do so until they are forced to stop.
???
by Evan N
Friday, May. 02, 2003 at 10:12 PM
a common enemy doesn't mean that they are friends.
EXAMPLE:
I don't like osama bin laden, and neither does George Bush (or so he says), but i am in no way joining up with george bush to exterminate bin laden.
WW2 volunteers
by Saleh
Monday, May. 05, 2003 at 1:40 AM
yes there were Arabs in the German army in WWII, but there were also Americans (USAers) there, etc. doesn't prove a thing.
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