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April 26th pictures
by Gwendolyn R. Schmidt
Tuesday, Apr. 29, 2003 at 7:56 AM
stuff@pghgoth.com (email address validated)
A few pictures of the April 26th protest
Strip District arrives:
Hill District arrives:
Southside arrives:
Northside arrives:
A couple photos of the march:
More pictures of the marches and the rally (including the games) can be found here.
I had a fantastic time!
er, oops
by gwen
Tuesday, Apr. 29, 2003 at 8:14 AM
Oops, this is the Strip District arriving:
Sorry about that!
Shadyside Arrives At March
by Confused Activists
Tuesday, Apr. 29, 2003 at 11:00 AM
So you'd like Iraq to be run by Islamic Fundamentalists?
by OG Readmore
Thursday, May. 01, 2003 at 4:43 PM
Do you realize if the US just up and left Iraq now, fundamentalist Shiite clerics (think Iran) would fill the power vaccum left by the lack of western power?
If the US pulled out now, before a new liberal government is in place, Iraq will just become another Iran which funds terrorism, hates western culture and would escalate tensions between the Palestinians and Israelis...
I understand not wanting the US to stick around too long in Iraq, but COME ON!! why would you ever want the US to leave before a secular/liberal government is in place?
re: Islamic Republic
by gwen
Friday, May. 02, 2003 at 4:37 AM
I'm assuming you're addressing this to the protesters who are for such things, not to the documentation of the protest. However, I do have some salient points on the matter.
Hatred of western civilisation comes from the culture, not from the government. We are not doing ourselves any favors in this regard the way things are standing at the present time. It is difficult to like someone who has denied you basic necesseties of life, such as water. It is difficult to like someone who invades your country in the name of democracy, then denying your attempts at election with words of "appointment". It is most difficult to like someone who takes over your schools for their military, then kill you when you protest. We really need to work on our PR tactics over there.
As for an Islamic Republic rule in and of itself, this is where it being a real democracy comes in. Representing the people does mean representing their way of life, and for most people in the Middle East, Islam is an intrinsic part of that. However, if you look at the Qu'ran or at Islam's tenets, hatred of another country is not intrinsic to their philosophy. There being a secular or Islamic overstructure is not going to effect the people's sentiments on Western involvement.
The security of economic and political sanctity is the ultimate goal of any people. These mean that the people in a community can eat, clothe themselves, and maintain their own liberty. The only way to truly change the sentiments from being against us to being for us is to work towards giving them that sanctity. This means they need the power over themselves, and the ability to find economic progress. If we pulled out our military, but worked with them economically, we would find more friends than by staying as the new dictators (whether or not we are, that is how it becomes viewed the longer we stay).
Remember, these are not an uneducated people. They are learned, they have a hierarchy of classes, they have had wealth among at least some of the people, and they have a lot of culture. We cannot deny them their culture and their way of life because we disagree with the religion, that is the way of becoming our own worst enemy.
To Gwen
by Jani
Friday, May. 02, 2003 at 11:14 PM
Thank you Gwen. You said everything right there!
gwen
by /\/\
Saturday, May. 03, 2003 at 1:06 AM
Just a minor nitpick. I've read the Qu'ran and it actually has quite a bit of hatred for others. As long as you're a Christian or Jew (or considered "of the book") you only have to fear a life of slavery at the hand of your muslim masters. If you aren't "of the book" then the Qu'ran specifically says muslims can kill you. Oh, and it says many many times that it is the duty of every muslim to spread Islam, by force if necessary.
People who say Islam is a religion of peace are the same morons who claim Christianity is. Sure they both can be, as long as you ignore some fundamental sections of their religious texts.
texts
by Jani
Saturday, May. 03, 2003 at 9:53 PM
All religion is bad, just like Christianity. BUT only if used in combination with state. And the religious texts are so vague and symbolic, that anyone can twist words around to suit their goals.
How can the USA go over to Iraq and say who can be leader there? How can they say that we know what is right for democracy when there is no seperation of church and state HERE???!!!
Look at your money, it says "IN GOD WE TRUST" Look at the pledge of allegience, look at the 10 commandments in some courts, look at how we place our hand on the bible in court and the president does as well when being sworn into office!!
The Iraqis should be free to put whoever they want in power, if done so fairly. THE US is becoming a despot and tyrant when it decide who will be incharge (one of our guys working undercover). Do not be deceived!
9-11 was a set up and they will be using it for years as a justification for tyranny!!!!!!!
Chrsitian foundations
by Otis E.
Monday, May. 05, 2003 at 12:05 PM
"And the religious texts are so vague and symbolic, that anyone can twist words around to suit their goals. "
Or, one could read this as "freedom to believe in what you believe in"...isn't that what so many protestors seem to have as their mantra?? Aren't many protestors walking around spewing that they shoudl "have the right" to say whatever they want whenever they want however they want?? Well, sparky, the way our country works is that a right given to one group must be given to everyone else....ok, mayeb it doesnt always WORK that way in practice, but it comes mighty close.....
"How can the USA go over to Iraq and say who can be leader there? How can they say that we know what is right for democracy when there is no seperation of church and state HERE???!!! "
We are one of the THE most seperatist countries in the world where we are talking about religious references directly in our laws/ordinances.
However, seeing that the country was FOUNDED by Christians with very heavy beliefs in God, it would be impossible to completely pull that aspect out of this country.....and naive to think that it will ever happen.
"Look at your money, it says "IN GOD WE TRUST" Look at the pledge of allegience, look at the 10 commandments in some courts, look at how we place our hand on the bible in court and the president does as well when being sworn into office!! "
Again, all things that the country was founded on.....and principles that do more to HELP society than to hurt.....your parents' parents' parents' parnets would probably turn in their graves to hear that some want religious reference completely gone from the US...Like it or don't, this country was FOUNDED with Christian foudnations being the cornerstone......Some folks tend to forget or ignore that.....No-where in history is it documented that "30 atheiests attended the signing of the declaration of independence and protested, but were outvoted"....No, all the men in that room were God-fearing Chrsitian people...maybe not all perfect, but they certainly understood that a country without some sort of moral center is doomed to strife and unrest.....and at the time what better way to provide a mral center than to invoke the very religious beliefs that probably 99% of the folks who founded this country believed in.
"The Iraqis should be free to put whoever they want in power, if done so fairly. "
Ok....agreed....and how do you think that will happen? Do you think if we walk away from them RIGHT NOW today, that a fairly-elected government will simply sprout on its own?? Hell, these folks are so used to dicatorships, they were looting tehir own hospitals and MUSEUMS for pete's sake.....
No....more likely that the next thug with some weapons and the urge to run a country will take control...and then the folks in Iraq will be just as bad off...No, we have an obligation to help the Iraqui people set up their new government...and in the meantime, on the road to doing so, there must be a temporary government and structure to keep things in order....
But yes, they should choose their own leaders.....we should not choose long term leadership, but temporary "stop gap" leadership we have no choice than to do so.
"THE US is becoming a despot and tyrant when it decide who will be incharge (one of our guys working undercover). Do not be deceived!
9-11 was a set up and they will be using it for years as a justification for tyranny!!!!!!!"
Oh come on....you really believe that?? Are you saying that we crashed the planes into our own buildings??? With the kind of military power we hold, we could have moved into a number of countries by now and "become typrants"........but haven't. We have had many presients who were egotistical and could be considered everything you criticize GW to be, and yet we still have 50 states......No satellite US nations or empires we oversee....still teh same old 50 states.....Ok, we added Hawaii and Alaska from teh original 48..... <grin>
My opinion is that OUR problem is that we give too much of a shit about what is happening to our neighbors overseas....if we paid more attention to what is going on in our own country I think we would be better off....and even stronger for it.
However, with great power comes great responsibility.
Otis
by Jani
Monday, May. 05, 2003 at 11:07 PM
Otis, I agree that everyone has the right to choose how they they whatever meaning the get from a holy text. I never said that people should all believe that we should all interpret it the same way. That is ridiculous. Religion is a personal interpretation to a higher power, no matter what you call it. At least that's what I believe. What worries me, is when those in power use it as a tool to control. For example, what is the difference between a middle eastern terrorist crashing a plane in a building for Allah, and American soldiers marching to Baghdad because God Blessed America and that gives "us" a right to murder?
".and at the time what better way to provide a mral center than to invoke the very religious beliefs that probably 99% of the folks who founded this country believed in."
Well, if you remember... before British colonies came to America, there was a race of people who lived here for centuries and populated all of the land. (You know.. the NATIVE Americans). They did not
agree wih Christianity (until it was pretty much shoved down their throats). So actually 99% of the population of America back in 1776 was mostly native americans, until they were slaughtered and pushed to the very ends of the land. And who could blame the Native Americans for being mad? What if some people came to America and kicked you out of your home? And what was at the forefront of this massacre and colonization? REligion.
That's all I am saying. I see your valid points Otis, but in my opinion power corrupts and the real reasons the US/Brit went into Iraq was for power and economic reasons.
9-11 was known about in the summer before it. The president and other government and security officials were warned repeatedly. Did they care? NO. They benefited from the whole horrible show. They used it to pass the Patriot Acts which are really unconstitutional.
well. I could say more, but what's the point?
christianity and our foundings and Islam
by gwen
Wednesday, May. 07, 2003 at 7:08 AM
Actually, this country was founded by people who weren't very happy with the idea of Christianity. There's even a book out there somewhere (alas, I forget its title now) built only of anti-Christian quotes by our founding fathers. On the other hand, we had slavery and genocide of the native people back then as well, so I'm not sure you'd want to base our start as ideally placed in today's world.
No, not everything in any religious text is all peace, all of the Abrahamic religions were birthed in the tribal wars of the ancient Middle East (including Christianity). However, what is being taught now is more important, and most often it is one of peace in both Islam and Christianity. And that's the key -- it will be taught either way, I'd prefer we were working with the people for peace rather than against them for resentment. Whatever sentiments we foster in the people will always be reflected in the religion.
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