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2003 BLACK AND GREEN ANARCHIST GATHERING
by ec
Friday, May. 30, 2003 at 1:52 AM
Come to the 2003 Black and Green Anarchist Gathering!
2003 BLACK AND GREEN ANARCHIST GATHERING
JULY 10 - 13
Sproul State Forest in North-Central Pennsylvania
http://www.blackandgreen.org/gathering
This 4-day event will focus on rewilding ourselves and our resistance through primitive skills workshops and discussions on the theory and practice of green anarchism. It will be a chance for anarchists and others to come together, learn from each other and have a good time.
To learn more please visit the website. If you plan to attend we suggest that you fill out the registration form on the website so that we can prepare food and other supplies.
www.blackandgreen.org/gathering
transportation
by gina
Tuesday, Jun. 03, 2003 at 6:13 PM
sputumnacht@aol.com
Maybe we could set up some sort of carpool to get to the event. I'm in Greensburg and I know there are a few people that want to attend for sure.
Sounds Like Fun
by Prodigal Yunzer
Tuesday, Jun. 03, 2003 at 7:09 PM
I think maybe I'll recreate a typical Native American visit to your ehite man's campsite one night! Circle the wagons, I need me a new squaw.
Sounds Like Fun
by Prodigal Yunzer
Tuesday, Jun. 03, 2003 at 7:09 PM
I think maybe I'll recreate a typical Native American visit to your ehite man's campsite one night! Circle the wagons, I need me a new squaw.
I'm not usually this blunt, but...
by Sam
Tuesday, Jun. 03, 2003 at 8:34 PM
Primitivism is stupid.
http://www.greenanarchist.org.uk/Prim.htm
My Wish List
by Prodigal Yunzer
Wednesday, Jun. 04, 2003 at 3:06 PM
I wish that the cute girl with the piercings who was at the Rich Mackin meeting would come to the campout. I wish that I had enough money to bring blood sausage for everyone. I wish that the guy who wants to make me a target would come to the campout. And I wish that no one realize my true identity, because muaa haa haa I am the Prodigal Yunzer! SWOOSH
Sam doesn't get it
by Ana
Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 4:00 PM
richter@pa.net
The people who wrote the anti-primitivist analysis you linked to (http://www.greenanarchist.org.uk/Prim.htm) seem to be perfectly intelligent and well-intentioned, but, with all due respect, I believe they have taken primitivism from far too narrow a perspective, and have too readily done away with the whole topic on account of a few highly disputed points. I will not cop out like you did and simply leave a link with someone else's words to convince everyone of what I think are my ideas. I'm telling you they've got it wrong when they define primitivism by focusing on a hatred of technology. That's not the point at all, and many primitivists have no more qualms with technology itself than they do with eating and sleeping. "Technology" is a natural and essential product of human thought and ingenuity. We would have a pretty hard time going out in the woods and catching food and keeping warm with out creating/using some form of technology- say building traps or fashioning arrow heads or working with bow drills. The only existing argument against "technology," to my knowledge, is with the problem that grows ever greater this day and age- when we, completely oblivious, come to be submissive to our technology, so deeply involved that we are used by it, rather than putting it to our own originally intended uses. I'm not going to critique your entire essay here in this forum. But please don't dismiss primitivism, or any other philosophy for that matter, on the basis of a few sources on the same side of an issue. Hear us out. The current system does not work. That is clear. So we need something new. The writers of your article seem to be clinging to the idea that our problems can be fixed without throwing out this wretched system. What kind of anarchists are these? No replastering; the structure is rotten. We need something new. All the primitivists are pointing out, unanimously, despite all our petty inner squabbles, is that we used to have something which DID work. For two billion years of human history, we had something that worked. It still works in a few parts of the world today where we have not yet stamped it out. If what we have now doesn't work, and what we need is something that does, maybe we could learn a thing or two from these "primitive" peoples. Maybe this something new we're looking for is something mankind has known all along.
Sam doesn't get it
by Ana
Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 4:10 PM
richter@pa.net
The people who wrote the anti-primitivist analysis you linked to (http://www.greenanarchist.org.uk/Prim.htm) seem to be perfectly intelligent and well-intentioned, but, with all due respect, I believe they have taken primitivism from far too narrow a perspective, and have too readily done away with the whole topic on account of a few highly disputed points. I will not cop out like you did and simply leave a link with someone else's words to convince everyone of what I think are my ideas. I'm telling you they've got it wrong when they define primitivism by focusing on a hatred of technology. That's not the point at all, and many primitivists have no more qualms with technology itself than they do with eating and sleeping. "Technology" is a natural and essential product of human thought and ingenuity. We would have a pretty hard time going out in the woods and catching food and keeping warm without creating/using some form of technology- say building traps or fashioning arrow heads or working with bow drills. The only existing argument against "technology," to my knowledge, is with the problem that grows ever greater in this day and age- when we, completely oblivious, come to be submissive to our technology, so deeply involved that we are used by it, rather than putting it to our own originally intended uses. I'm not going to critique your entire essay here in this forum. But please don't dismiss primitivism, or any other philosophy for that matter, on the basis of a few sources on the same side of an issue. Hear us out. The current system does not work. That is clear. So we need something new. The writers of your article seem to be clinging to the idea that our problems can be fixed without throwing out this wretched system. What kind of anarchists are these? No replastering; the structure is rotten. We need something new. All the primitivists are pointing out, unanimously, despite all our petty inner squabbles, is that we used to have something which DID work. For two million years of human history, we had something that worked. It still works in a few parts of the world today where we have not yet stamped it out. If what we have now doesn't work, and what we need is something that does, maybe we could learn a thing or two from these "primitive" peoples. Maybe this something new we're looking for is something mankind has known all along.
Sam doesn't get it
by Ana
Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 4:12 PM
richter@pa.net
The people who wrote the anti-primitivist analysis you linked to (http://www.greenanarchist.org.uk/Prim.htm) seem to be perfectly intelligent and well-intentioned, but, with all due respect, I believe they have taken primitivism from far too narrow a perspective, and have too readily done away with the whole topic on account of a few highly disputed points. I will not cop out like you did and simply leave a link with someone else's words to convince everyone of what I think are my ideas. I'm telling you they've got it wrong when they define primitivism by focusing on a hatred of technology. That's not the point at all, and many primitivists have no more qualms with technology itself than they do with eating and sleeping. "Technology" is a natural and essential product of human thought and ingenuity. We would have a pretty hard time going out in the woods and catching food and keeping warm without creating/using some form of technology- say building traps or fashioning arrow heads or working with bow drills. The only existing argument against "technology," to my knowledge, is with the problem that grows ever greater in this day and age- when we, completely oblivious, come to be submissive to our technology, so deeply involved that we are used by it, rather than putting it to our own originally intended uses. I'm not going to critique your entire essay here in this forum. But please don't dismiss primitivism, or any other philosophy for that matter, on the basis of a few sources on the same side of an issue. Hear us out. The current system does not work. That is clear. So we need something new. The writers of your article seem to be clinging to the idea that our problems can be fixed without throwing out this wretched system. What kind of anarchists are these? No replastering; the structure is rotten. We need something new. All the primitivists are pointing out, unanimously, despite all our petty inner squabbles, is that we used to have something which DID work. For two million years of human history, we had something that worked. It still works in a few parts of the world today where we have not yet stamped it out. If what we have now doesn't work, and what we need is something that does, maybe we could learn a thing or two from these "primitive" peoples. Maybe this something new we're looking for is something mankind has known all along.
Oops.
by Ana
Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 4:16 PM
richter@pa.net
My bad. This thing is slow. Damn technology....
technology
by George K.
Monday, Jun. 09, 2003 at 11:29 AM
dodgerambler@yahoo.com
What a glaring example of irony(?) ... hypocrisy(?)...
A tree-hugger message on an internet board?
How laughable. Your "gathering" will not develop any concrete solutions for any problems that you perceive in society. I picture a parade of buffoons babbling about socialism and free food and herb farming. And all of you will smell decidedly French after a few days, if you don't already.
You are a speck of a sub-culture that will never make an impact on any major social movement. Why bother? Why not campaign for moral use of the technology that is availible now, since it can never be supressed? Though, to be realistic, you won't do much in that direction either. Man naturally tends towards the lowest/easiest solution.
That is why I lost faith in mankind to do anything right a long, long time ago.
Good ideas
by Me
Tuesday, Jun. 10, 2003 at 1:23 AM
What do you suggest we do then Georgie?
Should we all sit at home and post messages on sites and criticize everyone who doesn't agree with our own points of view? Should we all sit at home and look at porn sites while mommy makes us chocolate chip cookies?
I bet mommy still reads to you before bed at night!
It's too bad you can't stay awake past "Once upon a time...."
Don't worry Georgie, it'll be alright. No bears or wild animals will get you because mommy is right there and you have your night light too!
Good night Georgie poo!
Dime Store Psychologist
by Prodigal Yunzer
Tuesday, Jun. 10, 2003 at 12:16 PM
People like "Me" who mock maternal affection are usually the offspring of incompetent mothers. Motherless children, like so many bluesmen have recognized, have no clue how to behave in many situations, being incomplete people. Possibly the product of institutions, "Me" betrays himself as a motherless ranter when he disparages those whom he disagrees with in such a self revealing fashion.
Lay off yall
by wheatpaster
Tuesday, Jun. 10, 2003 at 7:50 PM
I personally don't like factions of the Left flinging mud at each other in this forum. When anarcho-syndicalists, socialists, and green party lobbyists disagree in the end result of our organizing in such a public forum, our centrist and right wing adversaries become stronger.
I don't identify as a green anarchist, but I CAN say the people who are organizing this have done a great job of getting word out. I have seen this gathering advertized in publications as far away as California... making this gathering much more intriguing than a garden variety camping trip. I would rather see a green anarchist wing of Allegheny County start organizing like bad asses than watch yet another centrist forum put together by one of Pitt's grad schools.
Yes, its true that green anarchists are just as susceptable to scrutized analysis as any other lifestyle choice or ideology, armchair poli sci majors included. I would prefer to engage them with my issues with the ideology in the lush surroundings of the close by Allegheny Forest to discover the intricacies of their philosophy. Great job in getting word out to the organizers, whoever yall are.
my mommy
by Me
Wednesday, Jun. 11, 2003 at 12:04 AM
Prodigal:
My mother was a good and competent "mommy". But I grew up. I was trying to reinforce the idea that Georgie criticizes like an infant. DUH!
Hug My Tree
by Jackel
Wednesday, Jun. 11, 2003 at 8:35 AM
Back to nature for a little anarchy? What sort of fool thing is this. The natural order of the ecosystems is all about control and order. Herds of deer, packs of wolves and even prairie dog mounds can not exist without defining order. So I agree. Take a lesson from your Mother (Nature). Get into line with the order of this great big prairie dog mound we call America and quit tossing dumpsters full of trash around like cow pies on the horizon. Otherwise you might just find that in the natural order of your deconstructed wilderness wicken clan you are what is referred to in the wild as .... FOOD.
Prarie dogs get monkey pox
by Jackyl Rocks
Wednesday, Jun. 11, 2003 at 8:27 PM
These folks are taking a cue from the Mother, practicing a well thought out theory. It seems pretty obvious that there is a natural order, without leaders or valuing property over life. Your little bit about all the happy little forest creatures getting together to define order and control sounds like a FAUX news rewrite of Bambi. Barring polar bears, there are no north american land animals that consider live humans to be food. These folks obviously know alot more about than wilderness than you, and certainly I. Their spelling is better, too.
Transportation?
by Prodigal Yunzer
Thursday, Jun. 12, 2003 at 9:45 AM
Primitive anarchists use their feet, a la Fred Flintstone. Oh wait he had wheels, thats no good, a slippery slope, as they are fond of saying. I'll beep at you as I drive past on the way. I have a Pace Arrow 32 foot RV with a king size bed in the back, you can't miss me. I have a big Alabama elephant sticker in the rear window and a 5 gun rack too.
Me grew up but still cant face..
by George K.
Saturday, Jun. 14, 2003 at 10:32 AM
dodgerambler@yahoo.com
Me claims that he grew up, but doesn't adress any of the points on the post. While any sub-culture can be criticized, the green/anarchist sub-sub-sub-culture is particularly open to scrutiny, since its members must utilize the very technology that they despise.
Sorry "me" but I am sadly too much of a realist, see no value in porn, and don't eat cookies.
Technology is here, and what people do with it is the relevant issue.
Babbling hippie lefttists like "me" never propose workable solutions.
I read many media sorces, and comment on some, and people like "me" are all too common.
The gathering...
by Y
Saturday, Jun. 14, 2003 at 11:24 AM
Hi,
I am posting here because there have been some location changes for the B&G gathering that is taking place in July. If you are planning to go, we need you to please check the webpage out as much as possible. The date is getting closer and the location has been changed due to FBI interference. We still plan on having it in PA unless noted otherwise. Once again, check out the gathering webpage to get furthur updates on whats going on, etc.
Thanks
-Y
www.blackandgreen.org/gathering
dearest george
by me
Sunday, Jun. 15, 2003 at 12:37 AM
I never said , and neither did the other people here, that we should get rid of technology altogether! Obviously, I own a computer and use other means of technology such as buses and running water.
I believe that technology is a good thing, but I do believe in balance and harmony with nature as well. It is true that humans have a natural tendancy to build tools and progress , but what we do is dominate nature, and we should co-exist with nature. I think we should work for technology and progress with MUCH less pollution, animal cruelty, littering, etc. We consume so much and waste so much, that it is disguting the way we have no balance! WE deplete our resources and do not think of the future. And its the little things people do that impact the world in a big way. For instance, instead of driving a few blocks, try walking or riding a bike. Not only would you save money, gas, and create less pollution, you would also get some exercise.
Or, instead of throwing out stuff you don't want or can't use anymore, donate it to a thrift store or someone who could use your usable stuff.
OKay, I won't lecture. Obviously, there needs to be more change than this. But, I don't think we should totally throw out technology. Just c0-exist with the earth's environment..
Now that "me" has..
by George K.
Monday, Jun. 16, 2003 at 3:37 PM
dodgerambler@yahoo.com
Now that "me" has made some rational statements, I will say that I agree with him/her. Urban planning is the most pertinant issue to sensible resource allocation and transportation. Walking, biking, etc. ... for transport to nearby tasks are the most sensible (for health and energy reasons). Mass transport with (reletively) clean energy is the next level required. Use tax money for this infrastructure change...not stadiums.
Unfortunately, the sub-sub culture of enviro wacko, self-important, short sighted idiots will always try to block a project like a Mag-lev.. claiming that it will damage "something". Of course it will move or build over "something". BUT...new trees can be planted, and grass, and so on.
Nuclear power is another technology that is reletively clean. And if the permitting of nuke plants wasn't so hamstrung by enviro's on a witchhunt, then advanced ways of safer nuke power would be a reality, not on a drawing board, and power-gen plants in Ohio would not be releasing particulates that drift and settle on West PA. AND there would be no tradeoff of particulates for nuke steam either...the newer nuke tech is very much safer and environmentally inert than coal dust.
energy
by Me
Tuesday, Jun. 17, 2003 at 1:21 AM
The problem is that everyone complains (and they should), and propose solutions, but nothing seems to come out of it.....
That's what it seems like, but those people in the past who some call the "enviro-wackos" have actually brought the environment into the light just these past few decades. (i'd say that the movement began in the sixties). So those hippies and tree huggers that people criticize so much HAVE done something. They brought recycling and clean air into the picture. Pittsburgh would still have a dirty smog hanging over the city like it used to.
These "hippies" and "tree huggers" are the opposing force to the dominant people in charge who may have no concern for the future. It's only in the past decade or so that recycling came to Pittsburgh. Maybe companies found a way to make a profit by buying recycled materials from the city?
I think this event is a good idea. I think its a great idea to learn self-survival and wilderness skills. It bothers me that all my comforts come from the system I live in. I feel that people today are too reliant on cozy comforts like heat, electricity, a/c and plenty of food already "hunted" , cleaned, and pre-packaged in ready to eat compartments. Think of it this way: If you feed a wild animal abundantly and it becomes complacent and lazy because it has no need to run and hunt.....and you introduce another wild animal into the picture, who would win the " territory"? The wild animal of course. The other one was weakened for it became dependent on the easy giving of food. They say to never bite the hand that feeds you, but that hand is worse than your opponents hand. It takes your strength away as it feeds you and leaves you open for the kill.
So these anarchists have the right idea. Never become reliant on others for self-sufficiency. Enjoy the fruits of progress, but don't let it weaken you . Because just when you think you have controlled or dominated the environment around you, it springs a natural defense to get rid of you.
The native indians understood this, and lived in harmony with the environment. They got what they needed (even meat) but they did so in a non-wasteful, non-hermful way.
That's something that I would like society to bring back. I think it is possible to have technology and do this..
That's all....
and remember don't eat too much prepackaged reprocessed food. It's killing us... no shit.
![[masthead]](/images/masthead_140.png)